kill micro$oft

Posted 3 Mar 2006 at 14:53 UTC by proclus Share This

The time has come for us to move forward and hurt micro$oft.

Everything is in place. We have an excellent coalition, and I am thinking about it hard. I know that many of you are working on this problem everyday, as I do, but if you have any ideas please send them along.

Regards,
proclus
http://www.gnu-darwin.org/


What is 'shibumi' , posted 3 Mar 2006 at 15:40 UTC by badvogato » (Master)

What is Shibumi? and why the idea of killing comes to you today? will you elaborate more?

Effortlessly effectable, posted 3 Mar 2006 at 17:18 UTC by garym » (Master)

Good news

I have a claim of prior art copyright on a well-formed, detailed and feasible design plan that would reformat Microsoft virtually overnight. Google could roll out my plan in less than five years rendering Microsoft completely irrelevent as an OS and Software vendor, cast aside as a non-entity in the equation of popular computing.

Within 5 years. A world without Windows by 2010, maybe sooner. Not to kill them, nothing so mean. Just to forget them, leave them behind and move on with our lives.

Yahoo! conceivably could implement my plan, but they have a huge catch-up job that might set them back another 5 years. Of course, Microsoft could do it too; like Google they have most of the requisite bits, but they'd have to conquer themselves first and I can't see that happening. Ditto with maybe AOL Time Warner. There a slim chance, but a lot of corporate cultural future shock that I don't see chance for happening.

But Google? Google is perfectly poised. I'm serious. Google is frustratingly standing right there with their finger on the button and they don't see it. If you know anyone senior there who'd like to see Google liberate humanity and rule the Earth, have them call me.

No! Don't kill Microsoft! :-), posted 3 Mar 2006 at 18:13 UTC by bi » (Journeyer)

We need the presence of a Great Satan to keep spurring us on! Without a Great Satan, what will we do? :-)

(On a related note...)

Extreme Prejudice With Malice, posted 3 Mar 2006 at 22:43 UTC by nymia » (Master)

That sounded like pre-meditated with malice, done with extreme prejudice. Hope your counsel can setup a good defense because the prosecutors will be long and many. By the way, no arbitration court will accept that, plus the liability including damages will be substantial.

Please Proclus, keep advogato as a free place, posted 4 Mar 2006 at 00:00 UTC by yeupou » (Master)

Frankly Proclus, many times you wasted the front page with speeches about wars. One time is okey, but not over and over.

And now, you get childish just like if Libre Software was about killing, hurting a company? And another guy then talks about "Great Satan", erk!

If you don't do it for yourself, please do it for the rest us that are grown up people that does not think world is only white and black. For the rest of us that would like advogato to stay a place for everybody.

Come here to ask questions and say what you stand for. But don't come to say in the name of everybody what you assume everybody here to think. That's just damn anoying.

to kill micro$oft, posted 4 Mar 2006 at 00:17 UTC by proclus » (Master)

By killing a corporation, boys and girls, we do not mean to shed the blood of a man, but rather to speak and act in every way as to demonstrate that we want _it_ gone. Compete against it as if to grind it into the ground. Find ways to make it spend money on nothing. etc. M$ is the very nemesis of software freedom, and deserves to go. Exploit our alliances. We now have Apple, GNU/Linux, FSF, GNU-Darwin, and many others aligned against M$, so that we can do this. It is imperitive that we do it, because they have demonstrated many times and in many ways that they would do it to us.

Regards,
proclus
http://www.gnu-darwin.org/

being obsessed by the existence of a company is insanity, posted 4 Mar 2006 at 00:37 UTC by yeupou » (Master)

That's insane. If Microsoft does not want to do Libre Software, it is their problem and the problem of people that accept to play the game under their rules. It is a social problem but it is their right to be antisocial.

But there's nothing to do against this company, it has the right to exist in a free country. What are you expecting? Stalin-like ruling that would make Microsoft cease to exist, sending all the people we may consider antisocial to Gulag?

Re: being obsessed by the existence of a company is insanity, posted 4 Mar 2006 at 01:10 UTC by proclus » (Master)

> But there's nothing to do against this company

yeupou, you clearly have low expectations. As indicated, there are many things that we can do, and we should. It is right, our right, to compete vvigorously and robustly against M$.

Regards,
proclus
http://www.gnu-darwin.org/

"When you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy.", posted 4 Mar 2006 at 03:44 UTC by bi » (Journeyer)

yeupou, proclus: my comment about a "Great Satan" was of course made in jest. But I think there's a grain of truth in what I said: many political movements are driven primarily by a fear of Some Great Enemy taking over the world, and it seems unfortunately a fraction of the Free Software movement is also being powered by this driving force. Personally, I use free software because it suits my needs -- and the moment that a free software project decides to ignore the real needs of real users and think only about "grinding" M$ to the ground, is the moment I'll oppose both Microsoft and that free software project.

you don't get my point, posted 4 Mar 2006 at 08:35 UTC by yeupou » (Master)

proclus "It is right, our right", you missed my point. My I'm not asking you to stop fighting against whatever you dislike, I'm asking you to speak in your name and stop considering there an "us", a "we", an "our", involved. You may not be alone but you are definitely entitled to speak in the name of everybody here.

errr, posted 4 Mar 2006 at 08:35 UTC by yeupou » (Master)

err, typo : you are definitely not entitled to speak in the name of everybody here.

Advogato needs..., posted 7 Mar 2006 at 12:15 UTC by uriel » (Journeyer)

a way to moderate similar to the threshold in the recentlog.html page.

And proclus, why don't you shut up? don't you see you are making yourself and this whole site look bad? If you want to rant about offtopic subjects, please use your diary, thank you.

advogato is different (and yes-and-no needs...), posted 10 Mar 2006 at 17:46 UTC by lkcl » (Master)

the purpose of the certification is to link free software developers together.

i.e. to keep "non-" free software developers out, so that our time is not wasted sifting through material written by "non-" free software people.

one of raph's other sites running mod_virgule is for the discussion of material with explicit sexual content - and they REALLY need to keep the kiddies away from posting "p0rn here" and "you guys are a bunch of sex-mad sickos".

if you REALLY want to stop proclus from posting anything more on this site, then you need to speak to the people who certified him, which you can easily see on his page, and you need to ask them to "decertify" him. if THEY won't do that, then you contact the people who certify THEM and ask the second-tier people to decertify THEM.

but, given that proclus really _is_ a free software developer, i doubt very much whether anyone who has certified him will agree with you that he is "not a free software developer", according to advogato.org's charter (which you should read, again, btw).

so.

are you "entitled" to contact people and advocate that they de-certify a legitimate free software developer? yes. are you "entitled" to expect them to break advogato's charter just because you don't agree with what one person is saying? HELL no.

what else... oh yes: moderation. well... the development of advogato effectively stopped pretty much after it was written (it's only about 12,000 lines of c code anyway). a number of people (myself included) have endeavoured to "do better" - to improve it.

however, it's basically running, it breaks very occasionally (i ended up with my entire profile truncated some time last year, destroying over a hundred certs that people had given me over the past six years) and well... nobody is claiming responsibility for its development or for its maintenance!

so, whilst the idea of "it'd be nice to have the site updated to include better moderation" appears to be a good one, i doubt very much whether you will get anyone to actually update it!

what else... regarding actual moderation itself.

i used to like the idea of moderation using Certs - in fact, what i came up with back in 2000 (with the "research" version of virgule which is conceptualy very similar to Zope's "DTML") provides a similar concept to this "tagging" which is making itself felt across various web sites, including slashdot.org.

now i am not so sure about "moderation".

on a high-traffic site such as slashdot, i can understand it.

on a low-traffic site like this one?

naah.

you may not _like_ what people who are free software developers have to say - but advogato is more like a "debating forum" than a "news site".

so you really _don't_ have the right to say "get this guy's stuff off of 'my' advogato front page" - not that you are, i fully understand that.

what you _do_ have the option to do is to simply... not read. ignore. it's not much effort...

oh, and proclus? i have to say this: your recent posts leave me very concerned for your mental health (coming from me that's pretty good, huh? :)

please consider whether you need to seek help, or whether to give consideration to increased paranoia and attention regarding your environment - the things that you eat and drink; where you live; how you live etc. good luck.

p.s., posted 10 Mar 2006 at 18:00 UTC by lkcl » (Master)

for the record: yes, i think it's time that the microsoft corporation went away. they have done enough damage.

however, free software developers are not, in my opinion, the best people to decide what should be put in its place.

you only have to look at for example the samba team, who are a loosely knit bunch of developers - and by loosely, it basically means that they write stuff "on their own".

the samba team have no sense of duty or responsibility. if they did, they would have chosen a far different development path from the "technically gratificating" one than they have chosen.

in other words, whilst their technical skills are second-to-none, their leadership skills and strategic planning capabilities are complete shit.

you only have to look at the fact that luke howard implemented AND COMPLETED, pretty much on his own, an Active Directory replacement in THREE YEARS (it's been available for nearly three years now), whereas the samba team announced last year that they had nearly completed a replacement for the free software project "freedce", that they were on the way to completing their replacement for the "heimdal" project, and they were on the way to completing their replacement for the "openldap" project... you starting to get the picture?

and it's not just the samba team that are wasting time and effort on _not_ focussing on doing projects that are USEFUL to people.

so, i ask you this: do you _really_ want people who cannot focus on providing software that people NEED to "rule"?

we, as technically aware individuals, NEED to drum into our psyches a sense of duty and responsibility.

and that should be enshrined into everything that you do - into the apache software foundation's charter. into the samba foundation's charter (which isn't going to happen, for legal reasons).

otherwise, really: don't bother writing code. don't bother posting it on the internet. if you can't LISTEN to what people NEED, then you are doing them just as much of a disservice as microsoft is.

Re: p.s., posted 11 Mar 2006 at 06:08 UTC by bi » (Journeyer)

lkcl: on the contrary, I think many developers have too much sense of duty and responsibility -- of the wrong kind.

needs title, posted 11 Mar 2006 at 07:27 UTC by yeupou » (Master)

"yes. are you "entitled" to expect them to break advogato's charter just because you don't agree with what one person is saying? HELL no."

Please, quote your "charter" (is there even page named charter on advogato) when it says that advogato should contain whatever crap and topic of interest to one free software developer, crap that would posted over and over.

"you may not _like_ what people who are free software developers have to say - but advogato is more like a "debating forum" than a "news site"."

Nowadays, people who are free software developers no longer means dick. There are too many, it a synonym for 'random guy in the universe'. Should advogato front page contains rant of whatever random guy in the universe, and like if it was not enough, consider there's a "we" involved?

Have you actually read my message? I'm telling: « I'm not asking you to stop fighting against whatever you dislike, I'm asking you to speak in your name and stop considering there an "us", a "we", an "our", involved. You may not be alone but you are not definitely entitled to speak in the name of everybody here. ».

"so you really _don't_ have the right to say "get this guy's stuff off of 'my' advogato front page""

I don't know where you live, but where I live, in a free country, I definitely have such right.

you're right - site's changed since i last checked., posted 11 Mar 2006 at 10:34 UTC by lkcl » (Master)

http://advogato.org/mission.html

hmmm... there used to be a link to an explanation of what the different levels actually meant... oh well :)

sorry, didn't make myself clear., posted 11 Mar 2006 at 10:36 UTC by lkcl » (Master)

I don't know where you live, but where I live, in a free country, I definitely have such right.

oh you definitely have such a right - you just don't have the right to expect him to obey you.

example illustration, posted 11 Mar 2006 at 10:38 UTC by lkcl » (Master)

Lose that Windows Machiiiine
[I want my...]
[I want my...]
[I want my own Pee Cee]

Now lookatdem spybots, that's the way to do it You play the suckers on the Internet That ain't workin, that's the way to do it Money for nothin and your porn for free. Now that ain't workin, that's the way to do it Lemme tellya: Marketeers ain't dumb Maybe putta little bitta spyware on your puter Maybe see the webcam in your home.

We gotta lose those downloadin habits Custom Adware delivererereriies We gotta lose this virus-ridden software We gotta lose these Windows Pee Ceees

See that little hacker with your credit card and bank book? Yeah buddy, it's now *HIS* ID. That little hacker now knows your whole life. That little hacker got it from your Pee Cee.

I shoulda learned more about computers. I should learned about Linux or Macs. Look at that, Mama, a six-year-old shouldn't see this Maan, but it sure looks fun. And he's up there, what's that: sighing noises? Banging on that ass like a chimpanzee That ain't workin, that's the way to do it Money for nothin and your porn for free.

We gotta lose those downloadin habits Custom Porno delivererereriies We gotta lose this virus-ridden software We gotta lose these Windows Pee Ceees

Now that ain't workin, that's the way to do it Lemme tellya: Racketeers ain't dumb Maybe getta little bitta twinge in your conscience Maybe you just don't have one.

Money for nothin, your life belongs to mee Money for nothinnnn 'puter owned by mee

[I want my...] [I want my...] [I want my own Pee Cee]

illustrate to people, posted 11 Mar 2006 at 10:41 UTC by lkcl » (Master)

people don't get how really serious this matter is. they don't know any different, and they've been deceived. whilst proclus' focus seems to be a bit fuzzy, and i'd be very worried about him if he owned a gun, he is vaguely on the right track - just not advocating, in my opinion, the right things.

the above parody is, in my opinion, a good way to illustrate to people who don't understand computers just how serious things are.

my reply need a title, posted 11 Mar 2006 at 11:07 UTC by yeupou » (Master)

oh you definitely have such a right - you just don't have the right to expect him to obey you

Indeed! So naïve that I am, I'm only making demands.

i'd be very worried about him if he owned a gun, he is vaguely on the right track - just not advocating, in my opinion, the right things.

What is a concern to me is the fact that he speaks with terms that misrepresent other advogato users, as using "we", "us" etc, just lead to think there is a consensus here. While there is no consensus at all. As I said, the only link betweeen people here is doing free software. Which nowadays is meaningless, since there are 1000 reasons to do free software and plenty of them are incompatible.

Illustrate... with Adobe Illustrator, posted 11 Mar 2006 at 11:34 UTC by bi » (Journeyer)

lkcl: you can't listen to what users need if you keep trying to talk down to them. (This, incidentally, is yet another problem in common with certain political movements: they claim to serve "the people", but totally ignore what the people actually want.)

Be told and behold are not the same, posted 11 Mar 2006 at 15:12 UTC by badvogato » (Master)

needs and wants are different. people will tell you what they want but they will scream at you if you 'accidentally' or not, take away what they need to give them what they want. Be told is not the same as behold!

apologies, yeupou, posted 12 Mar 2006 at 19:27 UTC by lkcl » (Master)

darn, i do this so often. dear yeupou, i should have made it clearer. how-to-explain... quite frequently, i forget to "acknowledge" people's points, before making my own. i forget that then people assume that i am disagreeing with the point that they are trying to make. in this instance: i realise and accept that you are endeavouring to convince proclus to not use "us", and i should have acknowldged you well, before changing the subject matter.

Certifications, posted 13 Mar 2006 at 11:35 UTC by redi » (Master)

http://advogato.org/certs.html

That what you were thinking of, lkcl?

Ode to brave Proclus, posted 18 Mar 2006 at 05:51 UTC by ru » (Master)

Gather all ye round

To hear the story of brave Proclus

Who sailed a ship to the Redmond sea

To slay an evil giant who liveth there

Let us listen in now (here's Proclus)

"Yeah, I'm going to fly right up Bill Gates' ass.

Got me a Linux bird, and a righteous free software methodology,

and I'm going to fly that bird right up Gates' ass."

but...but... i heard donkeys can fly too, posted 18 Mar 2006 at 08:28 UTC by badvogato » (Master)

another Star birdy ass War in the making...

[i want ...]
[i want my....]
[i want my own pee wee....]

Make Bill Gates a millionaire!, posted 22 Mar 2006 at 07:24 UTC by brouhaha » (Journeyer)

One of my friends claims that it's our moral duty to do everything we can to make Bill Gates a millionaire.

Agreed, posted 22 Mar 2006 at 13:32 UTC by garym » (Master)

Especially considering he's currently a multi-BILLIONAIRE; I think he deserves at least a mil if only for the amazing feat of pissing off so much of the planet. I mean, that's way beyond what Howard Stern did.

ROFLMDAO!, posted 23 Mar 2006 at 18:17 UTC by Svartalf » (Journeyer)

ru, badvogato, that's just hillarious.

proclus, you really, really need to back off just a notch. The extremism isn't helping you any and all this goings on you've been on about isn't lending any credibility- discussions of the War in Iraq (which has nothing to do with Open Source) and this latest post make you look like a net.kook.

He said What - McNealy's war of words, posted 25 Apr 2006 at 13:25 UTC by badvogato » (Master)

April 2 2004 published on ZDnet news:

Sun Microsystems CEO Scott McNealy has launched so many wicked verbal attacks on Microsoft over the years that Microsoft's nearly $2 billion settlement could be considered hush money. Here's a sampling of his jabs:

* "Probably the most dangerous and powerful industrialist of our age." (Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates)

* "Ballmer and Butt-Head." (Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer and Gates)

* "A giant hair ball." (Microsoft's Windows and Windows NT)

* "General and motors." (Microsoft and Intel)

* "Windows More Errors" (Windows ME)

* "Look Out" (Microsoft's Outlook)

* "The Corvair of Web servers, unsafe at any speed" (Internet Information Server)

* "Captive Directory" (Active Directory)

* ".Not," ".Not Yet" and ".Nut" (Microsoft's .Net development strategy)

* "The beast from Redmond" and "the evil empire." (Microsoft and its headquarters.)

* "You can take the offer from the dark side. The first hit of heroin is free." (On efforts to entice developers.)

* "With Microsoft, the first hit is always free--remember that all your life. They're going to all these different Web sites and having them become .Net Web sites. They say they're not going to make any money. For now, they'll not charge you for access to your Passport environment. Maybe soon they'll charge you $50. That's $50 that they're charging you for info that they stole from you."

* "Microsoft is now talking about the digital nervous system. I guess I would be nervous if my system was built on their technology, too."

* "The only thing I'd rather own than Windows is English, because then I could charge you $249 for the right to speak it, and I could charge you an upgrade fee when I add new letters."

* We should "shut down some of the bullshit the government is spending money on and use it to buy all the Microsoft stock. Then put all their intellectual property in the public domain. Free Windows for everyone! Then we could just bronze Gates, turn him into a statue and stick him in front of the Commerce Department."

"Listen, I have never turned down a meeting with Gates or Ballmer...On many occasions, I've challenged them to get on stage one-on-one and have a reasonable debate, but they've always refused. And that's because they don't even flirt with telling the truth anymore. And if I were protecting a monopoly like they are, I wouldn't do it, either. Because they know the real truth."

Of course, Ballmer has delivered a couple counterpunches:

* McNealy "is monomaniacal about us. He's two standard deviations away from reality in what he says."

* "Sun is just a very dumb company...Those sub-50 IQ people at Sun who believed we and Sun had this sort of wonderful dovetailing strategic interest are either uninformed, crazy or sleeping." (On criticism from Sun about how Microsoft was implementing an agreement to write Java-compatible programs.)

Compiled from CNET News.com archives, BusinessWeek and the books "Bad Boy Ballmer" and "High Noon."

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