lkcl wouldn't translate these two poems for me to 'plain English' or Irish English but he agrees with me that it would not be a bad idea to translate them into Chinese. As far as Chinese go, I know very little, lest a few persons here: sye, tk, zhaoway. So this is a calling to translate John Donne to Chinese.
1. A Lecture upon the Shadow
Stand still, and I will read to thee
A Lecture, Love, in loves philosophy.
These three houres that we have spent,
Walking here, Two shadowes went
Along with us, which we our selves produc'd;
But, now the Sunne is just above our head,
We doe those shadowes tread;
And to brave clearness all things are reduc'd.
So whilst our infant loves did grow,
Disguises did, and shadowes, flow,
From us, and our cares; but, now 'tis not so.
That love hath not attain'd the high'st degree,
Which is still diligent lest others see.
Except our loves at this noone stay,
We shall new shadowes make the other way.
As the first were made to blinde
Others; these which come behinde
Will worke upon our selves, and blind our eyes.
If our loves faint, and westwardly decline;
To me thou, falsly, thine,
And I to thee mine actions shall disguise.
The morning shadowes weare away,
But these grow longer all the day,
But oh, loves day is short, if love decay.
Love is a growing, or full constant light;
And his first minute, after noone, is night.
2. Selfe Love
He that cannot chuse but love,
And strives against it still,
Never shall my fancy move;
For he loves 'gaynst his will;
Nor he which is all his own,
And can att pleasure chuse,
When I am caught he can be gone,
And when he list refuse.
Nor he that loves none but faire,
For such by all are sought;
Nor he that can for foul ones care,
For his Judgement then is nought:
Nor he that hath wit, for he
Will make me his jest or slave;
Nor a fool, for when others....
He can neither...
Nor he that still his Mistresse payes,
For she is thrall'd therefore:
Nor he that payes not, for he sayes
Within, shee's worth no more.
Is there then no kinde of men
Whom I may freely prove?
I will vent that humour then
In mine own selfe love.
Ils disent que ce poème n'est rien,
sinon la prose d'un enfant
avec des retours à la ligne éparpillés au hasar
Ils disent que ce poème est
sans mesure, sans rimes,
sans rythme, rien.
Mais c'est seulement parce que
ce poème est
trop radical pour eux.
Ce sont des
à des stéréotypes obsoletes
sur l'importance de la mesure et des rimes.
Ils ont été endoctrinés
par les Censeurs Maléfiques de la Poésie
qui définissent arbitrairement
des lois et une hierarchie dans la poésie.
Ils ne comprenent pas
Ils disent que
sont tous les mêmes,
que nous ne sommes pas anti-conformistes ;
parce qu'ils ne savent pas trouver
le grand individualisme
au travers des lignes
de chaque poème.
Lorsque nous disons "génie",
nous ne sommes pas élitistes.
l'élitisme comme un mal.
Les Censeurs Maléfiques de la Poésie
qui d'entre nous sont élitistes.
Nous devons célébrer
la valeur de l'invididu
face à l'oppression des autorités.
écraser toutes hierarchies,
détruire toutes autorités --
and par a Force du Stylo
qui écrit ce Poème,
NOUS SERONS VICTORIEUX !!!
In translated it because that's something I usually like to do. But face it, it's definitely crappy and childish. "We'll destroy the autorité by the force of the pen". Sure dude! Have a drink while I'm having a laugh. And believe me, I do not give a toss about the right meter, scansion (and whatever) of poetry. But, sure, I wont challenge the idea that I'm an ignorant fool.
: sure, feel free to include this translation. But please do not add my name along, or mention that I do not share views exposed in this poem.
jbuck: I personally doubt that poetry can be correctly translated. If you translate it litterally (more or less what I did for tk's link), it will probably sounds a bit strange, not clean and beautiful. But on the other hand, if you don't, you will no longer be doing a real translation, but an interpretation.
I often notice differences between what actors says and what is written on subtitles, when watching TV show or movie in English with French subtitles: I understand that many things cannot be appropriately translated into French easily, so translators have to interpret ; but in the end, the translation is disrepectful of the original meaning of the dialogs. Apart from the usual translation problem in movies (intonations constitute a big part of actors job; people doing the french voices are rarely good enough (or have enough time) to do something acceptable by comparison), you have to face the fact that translatio is a myth. We are only doing more or less intepretatio. And it is dramatically hard to draw the line between too much intepretatio and not enough.