a common noble cause
Posted 25 Apr 2002 at 21:29 UTC by sye
As i am aware that a few of us here have recently put ourselves under
one common noble cause: parenting. That's how this article
gets my attention. "Bob Cringely's 74-day old son died of SIDS. Now
he wants to kick off an open source research project to understand more
about sudden infant death.
all topics on children's health, education, sex education etc are
welcome under this article...
What a load of bullshit. Anyone who
looks at the world and says "what this place needs is another human"
is ether incredibly dense or is deluding them-self. Parenting is not
having enough control over your primitive impulses to procreate to put
a rubber on before you fuck, nothing more.
Anyhow, Crigley's idea is very naive. Exactly what sorts of data
is he hoping to collect with a $10 detector? If he's simply relying on
the Mongolian horde technique to medical data, that if they just measure
breathing rates (of course, I'd be impressed if they could pull even that
off for $10) of enough kids, they're suddenly going to say, "oh, that's
what's wrong!," he's even more naive.
I think the situation is this: he's not gotten over his new father
hormones, and the kid dies, so now he's a grieving new father. The trick
is that he has a widely read online column, so he uses the column to
come up with some cockamamy plan to make his kid's death easier to
cope with, and then we all have to deal with it.
i beg to differ, posted 26 Apr 2002 at 00:42 UTC by sye »
I beg to differ. Of course parenting is noble! If you won't believe it,
simply ask my husband how he lives his noble life everyday. He is a
father of 5 boys, age 2 months to 13 years old. Little Gregoriy keeps
him amused every minute. Little Eugene brings him coffee and juice each
morning. Miki is the backup for morning beverage duty plus dish washing
duty. Peter is to play and protect Niko and setup the table for every
dinner. Of course, they all fight and
querral with each other.
Parenting is noble. But many of us have given that noble cause to
capitalism and market or to housewife or to working mother and working
father without a second thought.
Beyond noble, posted 26 Apr 2002 at 05:19 UTC by mx »
Parenting is beyond noble - it is at the core of who we are ... and
the propagation of our race depends on it. It requires great skill and
patience, not to mention kindness and love. The experience will teach
you more about yourself than any other, as you see yourself reflected in
someone else. It is a geek thing really, teaching a complicated device
to find intelligence and wisdom. What better project can mankind
attempt than to train an intelligent device?
What happened to Cringely is easily the most painful event
imaginable. I know - in the last year I twice held my son in my hands
blue and cold, not breathing for some unknown reason. I will never,
ever, be the same again.
We were fortunate, though, as we found our son early enough to
resuscitate him. Few are so lucky. In a day where a $50 vanity watch
can monitor your heart rate and sp02 levels, children continue to suffer
The parts that go into a sp02 monitor are simple. The hospital our
son stayed at threw out a hadnful of sensors a day - not because they
stopped working - but because the sticky stuff lost its stick.
The devices are simple LEDs and photo-resisters (as far as I could
tell). These things can
accurately measure the level of oxygen in the blood (sp02, or saturation
percentage of O2). The hardware that reads the device appears to do a
simple low-rate sample + set of transformation (probably first order
derivatives) ... something could be put into a device that cost much
less than $10. In fact, I could imagine that the device could be
printed into bandages that were less complicated than those stupid
FM-syth chips that are in many kids toys.
It is really sad that things like SIDS are not higher on our
priorities than muscial bears and vanity-excercise watches. Medical
devices available to the masses are generally ions behind what
high-volume, useless consumer products can do - which is a sad
indication of the self-centered business of our society.
And, to answer the question of "is there any value to a simple device
for something like SIDS?" ... I have to say yes. The day we brought the
little dude home fromt he hospital, we bought an overpriced motion
sensor (detects breathing) for when the little guy sleeps. The device
is crap, but it is enough to save the the life of an incredible child.
Not only is child-rearing noble and good - it is worth standing on a
pulpit for. Mr. Bob Cringely, my heart goes out to you - be strong.
Amazing, posted 26 Apr 2002 at 05:54 UTC by mnot »
The Web shows me something new and amazing every day. For
example, because of projects like archive.org, JordanB's children
will be able to look back into time and see exactly what kind of
jackass their father was...
[ not that I haven't posted my share of similarly thoughtless drivel i
the past ]
My heart goes out to Cringley. He's a pundit ('nuff said), but that's a
horrible, horrible thing to happen to anyone. If some good comes
of this, good on him.
A small part of that good might be getting geeks out of their caves
and into the real world a bit more.
From mx: "Parenting is beyond noble - it is at the core
of who we are". So what does that make of a gay person like me, who
didn't have the option to become a parent? Am I
missing part of my core? (I don't mean that as harshly as it reads, but
I do intend
to challenge your assumptions!) I am sure that when a person becomes a
parent, that fact becomes part of their core identity, part of who they
are. But those of
us who do not choose to parent, or who cannot become parents, are not
missing some part of our core.
I don't think parenting is necessarily noble, although it certainly
can be noble. Just dropping kids certainly isn't noble -- any
nobility is whatever one earns based on how one parents. I do
think that caring for other people is arguably the highest calling,
whether it is caring for our children, caring for an aging parent or
caring for a friend dying of AIDS.
This may be a bit OT, but it's something I feel strongly about, so
I'm going to write it...
It is very difficult to be a parent when you are gay. Only recently
have we become able to use surrogates to have children, and in many
places it is still illegal for us to adopt. It is amazing to me that
people think gay people are
child molesters, or that they will turn the kids gay. That's the most
ridiculous, ignorant, downright rock stupid load of shit. Ye Gods, my
heterosexual parents sure didn't turn me straight, although they
sure as hell tried.
Those who do go through the hurdles to have biological children are
not protected by the laws -- in lesbian families usually the birth
mother only has rights, and the partner has none. Even if she raises the
child for its first 15 years, at a "divorce" she can't even visit her
child without the birth mother's permission.
In custody cases, a gay parent almost always loses their children,
for instance, if a married person comes out and divorces their spouse.
Often they have trouble with visitation -- courts commonly order it is
supervised, to prevent molestation!
A court in Florida took a child away
from its mother and gave it to the father because the mother was
lesbian, even though the father had a documented record of abusing the
I have a good friend who
adopted and raised eight children, and he is both a wonderful man and a
wonderful father. He was "in the closet" when he adopted, or he couldn't
have done that. (All of them are heterosexual, by the way.)
Okay, so this developed into a bit of a rant, and I'm not going to
apologize for that. I'm a second-class citizen, and I'm not one to sit
quietly and accept it like a good little fairy. Fuck that.
sadvogato, posted 27 Apr 2002 at 01:37 UTC by sye »
this is a poem from Patricia Celley Groth's book "The God's Eyes:
Stories From the Father Line."
THE BABY WHO REFUSED TO GROW
I took in my parents' sorrows early.
There was one baby sister my father talked about
with such longing, as if he cuold turn back
the years and months and days and find her alive.
She was born just after his father's death
in a quarry accident -- too soon, too small.
A boy of nine, he watched the birth
from his seat at his mother's head
where he bathed her temples.
The little girl was born with the caul on,
a slippery, blood-streaked envelope
which the midwife removed, and then she
breathed cautiously into the baby's mouth.
She mewed and forever after
she had a place in my father's heart.
"She won't live long," said the midwife gently,
"better name her quick." Katie Bell,
delicate beauty, after her mother.
They kept her in a shoebox
in the oven of the woodstove.
But she did live for eight months;
she opened her milky-blue eyes for Myrle,
smiled for him, stretched her hand to him.
He fed her with coffee spoons of warm milk,
brought flowers to wind among her little fingers,
kept the other children busy
so their mother could pay attention to the baby.
But still it was no use.
She couldn't sit up, didn't thrive.
Then one day she went behind her eyes
where my father could not follow,
left his heart dangling.
The end will come when I have learned
not to be caught in my father's sorrow,
not to be the baby -- who refused to grow.
Noble ?, posted 27 Apr 2002 at 02:58 UTC by ekashp »
Are you trying to tell me you love me ?
Thanks for letting me do the Mr. Mom thing !
a child is, if not "noble", at very least hard
and also worth enjoying and being proud of. parents, guardians,
teachers, anyone involved in the raising really should be commended for
the hard work and sacrifices they're making for the next round of people.
producing a child in the first place is another story. you
should try to avoid doing that, as there's far too many in need of
parents (and breathing room, food, fresh air & water, etc) already.
a little time spent in line at an adoption bureau is a simple enough
thing to ask, compared to all the other sacrifices the potential parent
is signing up for.
Excellent point. I must say, if I ever become a parent, it will be
through adoption. I do think that that is noble. But I reiterate, there
is nothing noble about spitting another kid out into this world,
regardless of your intentions to care for it.
Looney, posted 30 Apr 2002 at 06:12 UTC by robk »
JordanB, you're a looney.
Looney ?, posted 30 Apr 2002 at 13:25 UTC by ekashp »
Hey, I'll be the looney here!
I'm a guy with five wonderful little boys!
They're all my children. I'm proud to have brought them into the world,
and do my best to raise them as 'good' and productive members of the
society of their future.
But there are already many other children I've had the chance to care
for as well.
As it is I've spent a good deal of time over the years caring for the
neighbors children while they play with mine. Often there are neglected
children that badly need any extra attention they can get. Scouting,
school, sports, church, and other volunteer activities give us all
contribute to the upbringing of other youths, as well as one's own
children - adopted or otherwise.
Is there a better way to serve our future than contributing to the
raising of 'good' productive children ?
Open source parenting ?
I'll lurv being the loon. I gotta go change a diaper now ...
i was listening to Christen radio station this morning on the way to
work. The program is about Trinity. "Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit".
Nobility is also in the trinity of love, duty and self determination. If
a woman becomes a mother by 'accident', there isn't much of nobility in
her labor of delivering the baby as hard and painful as the labor can
be. If the woman is actually a victim of a brutal rape case, yet she
determined that baby has a right to be born and she has love for the
unborn child, that is noble. If the woman hate crimes/love peace in our
society and consider fighting the crime her calling. She decided to get
an abortion and devote her energy in fighting street crimes. She is also
a noble woman. For fathers, how many among us consider raising the
family our duty and think that we can't afford to lose our jobs even
though it no longer challenges our minds/bodies for the love of our
work? The invisible market hand has blinded most of us only see our duty
of earning wage, starving for the love of fame, believing in God and
republican at the same time yet never trust people are born with
goodness in their heart.